Curse

Chasing Squirrels · Nov 18, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I stopped playing my paragon because of sy

Also mesmers.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 18, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Increase the relevancy of Warriors and Dervs. I don't play those classes myself but the only melee class I generally see in any serious group is Assassin.

Its hard to say what needs buffing or nerfing. GW reminds me of Magic the Gathering in that respect. The vast majority of cards are unplayable and at times certain strategies are retardedly good because their counter strategy is weak. Power creep gets worse and not better as the game goes on because people demand more power at their disposal without understanding that there is more than one format in the game. The game company is then confused at the negative reaction to the powerup and proceeds to do whatever the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO they want until the QQing gets too loud.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

So..........you can't tell a Mesmer interrupted already by seeing your foe's skill stop in mid activation while the foe kinda falls down and up in a split sec at the same time? Of course..along with that infamous interrupted spell sound?

Oh, I can tell, but the issue is that groups aren't recognizing when the Mesmer does stuff. Something flashy and visible is what a PUG needs to understand something happened.

Yawgmoth · Nov 18, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

What really needs a buff in PvE the most is... the mobs. They simply cannot compete with all the imba going around and they can't adapt. Just imagine, what if some enemy groups contained 2 insanely good monks, that having a mesmer or daze/interrupt ranger or even a sin that can do repeated kd's

Better balance makes a better game overall, but to make a better balance first nerf the most obvious imba stuff, not only SF or ER but also many EotN PvE skills that allow classes to do things they shouldn't be able to, and do that even more efficiently than normal skills of that class can. Then buff a bunch of stuff to make all classes able to contribute enough to a full team to be worth it's slot.

The Drunkard · Nov 18, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Mesmers

I'd be perfectly happy if they would cut the recharge for most of the domination hexes+ esurge in half (20sec and greater); energy problems would balance it out. It's sad when I can only put empathy/backfire on monster and wait until my team mops up the mob to have it recharged.

zelgadissan · Nov 18, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Nothing needs buffed. In fact, a lot needs nerfed. One thing that would help a lot is if PvE skills were to magically disappear.

Carinae · Nov 19, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[list][*]1. Dervishes. Hands down the weakest class in PvE right now. They can't do anything that another class can't do better.

No, that's rangers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Fundamentally, the problem is this: To rival warriors and sins, a melee needs to do at least 2 of the 3 following things very well: (1) generate a ton of buffable packets, (2) spam SY!, and (3) knock things on their butts. Well, sadly a dervish fails at all of these. Scythes are too slow to be good at generating packets, and none of the attack skills are very good for adding extra packets, and the packets you do generate aren't fully buffable because of damage type shifts. And, the adrenaline gain is too slow to spam SY! well. And, no native knockdowns, and no advantage with the PvE knockdowns.

Bars exist, PM me. They do need comparison to wars and sins though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[*]3. Ranger. The only thing this class does better than any other right now is dazed, which is only sometimes useful.

It's hard to fix this class with a total redesign. I can only suggest a couple of incremental changes:

Allow preps with Barrage/Volley.
Rework redundant bow attacks.
1 decent non-elite energy management skill. (Body Shot has too low e-gain to benefit if you apply cracked armor yourself, but is unreliable if you need to coordinate with someone else; Scavenger Strke requires 2 skillslots.)
Some sort of party-buff role. Possibly make pet buffs have a ward-sized AoE around the pet??

Also:

Massively buff all ranger IAS durations.
Rework bow (and spear) attacks to end when the projectile leaves the player, not when they arrive at target.
Deep Wounds bow attack
Critical bow preparation
Triple-shot, Dual-shot @ 5e 4s recharge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[*]4. Elementalist. The only thing this class is good for right now is monking. Armor-creep on the Hard Mode monsters renders eles impotent as damage dealers.

Suggestion: Change Intensity to grant significant armor penetration % to all elementalist skills. This will cause ele skills to gain effectiveness in step with monster armor as it increases.

Intensity:
Make it a larger percentage increase, like 50% ish
Elementalist skills only or tie to ES
Greatly increase duration (easily maintainable)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[*]5. Monk. Totally outclassed by ER eles. Only superior in areas where ER eles are unusable due to heavy enchant stripping.

ER eles have 2 significant advantages over Monks: First, effectively unlimited energy. Second, effectively no health sac for Infuse. At the very least, the energy problem needs to be solved for monks to become competitive.

The change would have to be PvE specific, as monk-energy limitations are pretty much the foundation of PvP balance.

Divine Favor maybe reduce costs of monk spells (ala Expertise) while also continuing it's current bonus?

Cuilan · Nov 19, 2009, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

Power creep gets worse and not better as the game goes on because people demand more power at their disposal without understanding that there is more than one format in the game.

There isn't anymore power creep in Magic anymore. Have you seen the latest sets? The idea of cards that require cards to come into play is pretty low end. Magic's Standard is far softer than it was years ago.

I don't want power creep in Guild Wars, but I do want all professions to be seen as equal. Mesmers are great at smashing face in PvE, but their recharge times, huge massive lack of useful PvE skills, and Inspiration nerfs are annoying.

LONGA · Nov 19, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Pure mesmer bar really require inspiration skills for energy management or recharge reduction.just like rit spirit skills before the buff.Tone those need down and we might see mesmer doing more stuff in PvE.Also mermer play style is like wait and see game so HM doesnt open much option for them.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 19, 2009, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

There isn't anymore power creep in Magic anymore. Have you seen the latest sets? The idea of cards that require cards to come into play is pretty low end. Magic's Standard is far softer than it was years ago.

I dunno about softer so much as lacking in tier 1 control decks. All the top decks are aggro. Have YOU seen the latest sets? Baneslayer Angel, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, Bloodghast, Bloodbraid Elf, planeswalkers, etc have made Standard nuts. Heck, I'd say that today's Standard, which is dominated by Jund Aggro/Mid-range, is the closest we've come to Affinity's Standard in years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I don't want power creep in Guild Wars, but I do want all professions to be seen as equal. Mesmers are great at smashing face in PvE, but their recharge times, huge massive lack of useful PvE skills, and Inspiration nerfs are annoying.

I simply can't see all professions being equal. There's always something one profession does better than another. Mesmers are better at one shoting guys than Necros but Necros have the ability to hex a whole group of guys, etc.

reaper with no name · Nov 19, 2009, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Dervishes. Hands down the weakest class in PvE right now. They can't do anything that another class can't do better.

Fundamentally, the problem is this: To rival warriors and sins, a melee needs to do at least 2 of the 3 following things very well: (1) generate a ton of buffable packets, (2) spam SY!, and (3) knock things on their butts. Well, sadly a dervish fails at all of these. Scythes are too slow to be good at generating packets, and none of the attack skills are very good for adding extra packets, and the packets you do generate aren't fully buffable because of damage type shifts. And, the adrenaline gain is too slow to spam SY! well. And, no native knockdowns, and no advantage with the PvE knockdowns.

Suggestions:
- Start by removing the team-synergy-gimping damage type shifts from AoHM and the avatars. Being able to participate in the MoP/Barbs/Orders paradigm would be a huge buff on its own.
- On top of that, Mysticism needs something (either skills or an inherent effect buff or both) to make it more useful to a scythe user than CritStrikes, Warrior's Endurance+Strength, or Expertise.
- Next, do something useful in the packet-generation department. More multi-swing attacks or full-AoE attacks.
- Finally, either give them some way to gain adrenaline quickly (probably disguised as multi-swing attacks) or a decent knockdown skill.
2. Mesmer. After the CoP nerf, they've got one decent build left that other classes can't do better (Mandragor-in-a-Can).

Suggestion: Change CoP and do it right this time. "Interrupt target foe and remove one Mesmer enchantment. If a Mesmer enchantment is removed in this way, that foes and all foes in the area take 50...100 damage."

That would restore the class to being a decent damage dealer. To go further than that, the Hard Mode fast cast buff would need to be removed, or the class totally redesigned.

No, Verne, it's terribly, horribly nerfed. Degen doesn't stack. Even one CoP guy running CoP + Arcane Echo (+ AP) by himself gets far, far less damage out of it. Besides, a dead monster now is worth more than a dead monster in 10 seconds.
3. Ranger. The only thing this class does better than any other right now is dazed, which is only sometimes useful.

It's hard to fix this class with a total redesign. I can only suggest a couple of incremental changes:
- Allow preps with Barrage/Volley.
- Rework redundant bow attacks.
- 1 decent non-elite energy management skill. (Body Shot has too low e-gain to benefit if you apply cracked armor yourself, but is unreliable if you need to coordinate with someone else; Scavenger Strke requires 2 skillslots.)
- Some sort of party-buff role. Possibly make pet buffs have a ward-sized AoE around the pet??
4. Elementalist. The only thing this class is good for right now is monking. Armor-creep on the Hard Mode monsters renders eles impotent as damage dealers.

Suggestion: Change Intensity to grant significant armor penetration % to all elementalist skills. This will cause ele skills to gain effectiveness in step with monster armor as it increases.
5. Monk. Totally outclassed by ER eles. Only superior in areas where ER eles are unusable due to heavy enchant stripping.

ER eles have 2 significant advantages over Monks: First, effectively unlimited energy. Second, effectively no health sac for Infuse. At the very least, the energy problem needs to be solved for monks to become competitive.

Suggestions:
- Return Selfless Spirit's cost reduction to 5, AND
- - EITHER: Do it the simple way and reduce Selfless Spirit's recharge to make it maintainable or very nearly maintainable,
  - OR: Take a worthless Divine Favor skill and change it into a reliable skill recharger to use to maintain Selfless Spirit. Example: "Holy Haste. cost 5; cast 1/4; recharge 20. Gain 5...20 energy and all of your monk skills are recharged."

Wow, I didn't even have to say anything. He nailed all of it.

REDdelver · Nov 19, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

[*]2. Mesmer. After the CoP nerf, they've got one decent build left that other classes can't do better (Mandragor-in-a-Can).

Suggestion: Change CoP and do it right this time. "Interrupt target foe and remove one Mesmer enchantment. If a Mesmer enchantment is removed in this way, that foes and all foes in the area take 50...100 damage."

That would restore the class to being a decent damage dealer. To go further than that, the Hard Mode fast cast buff would need to be removed, or the class totally redesigned.

I frickin LOL'd at this statement for over 15 mins. Since when does one skill define whether a class does enough damage??

Since when does doing a buttload of damage define the usefulness of a class....IT DOESNT.

Some of this community really needs think about half the crap that is written.

Blows my mind what some of you write. GL to you.

And please whatever you do....dont play a mesmer if you think it needs a buff.......You'll never do the class justice.

reaper with no name · Nov 19, 2009, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

No, that's rangers.
Bars exist, PM me. They do need comparison to wars and sins though.

Warriors and Assassins run those builds better than dervs do. Trust me. I've done the numbers more times than I care to count. Pretty soon I'll be doing them in my head at this rate. Rangers at least get their Barrage+SY!/Barrage+Splinter/Barrage+Whatever-The-Hell-You-Want-To-Put-It-With.

Chthon · Nov 19, 2009, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

Since when does doing a buttload of damage define the usefulness of a class....

I'm trying to decide if you're a troll or an idiot. Please try to explain how doing a buttload of damage can be anything other than a central criterion of usefulness in PvE.

zwei2stein · Nov 19, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Re-introduce Evade

I cant believe anyone is still missing it.

Why, party tell?

draxynnic · Nov 19, 2009, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

but how often do you see a Ranger in the Deep or in the DoA other than foundry?

Today. We took Jadoth down in HM with a Ranger, a Mesmer, a Ritualist, a Monk and a Paragon (we had a monk, ele, and warrior drop along the way. The last because he thought we couldn't finish. HAH!)

On the topic: Dervishes are probably the profession most in need of help (note that "help" could mean nerfing the competition as well as a direct buff). The role they fill does seem to be one that has demand, but that demand is easily filled by W/Ds and A/Ds.

Rangers come up next - I can't think of any really powerful builds for them, although Barrage and Broad Head probably make them better off than Dervishes (they do have builds that aren't beaten by other primaries running them as secondary - they just aren't excessively powerful).

Third is Mesmers - which can be powerful, but this involves using AP and PvE-skill based builds that really aren't very Mesmer-like at all.

Fourth is Paragons - as people have said, they have SY! and not really much else. This is probably best solved by bringing the other options up until SY! can be dropped.

Fifth is the Elementalists - they have the ER monking build, but that's an implicit acceptance that their primary role is missing a bit in HM. I think this is a little exaggerated as a problem - EBSoH allows them to get their damage back up, and a Blinding Surge ele can disrupt melees better than anything and have room on the bar for plenty of utility - which is why it's so far down the list.

Sixth is the Assassins. Permasins are clearly TOO powerful. There are viable builds without it, however (largely DB based) and it does strike me that it is possible to make a decently durable assassin without SF, but that's why it's in the sixth place.

The Assassin I'm not sure about, but IMO the remaining professions are all pretty much in the right place at the moment - although many have an attribute that could use some help, the profession as a whole is fine. For the sake of argument, though, I'll keep listing:

The Warrior comes seventh, purely because with the amount of expendable melee that can be created (minions, EVAS), the Warrior can tend to be the most vulnerable character becuase they're in closer proximity to the minion swarm, and thus more likely to be caught in area effects if not directly targetted.

Monk comes in eightth, but only because of the ER elementalist issue - and we all know they can still find groups easily enough regardless.

Finally, we have the Ritualist and Necromancer, which each have a variety of builds which bring them into demand and that actually behave like the profession they're supposed to be (Rits can spirit spam and heal, Necros can curse or MM, among others). If push came to shove, I'd probably put the Ritualist in ninth and the Necromancer in tenth.

Tenebrae · Nov 19, 2009, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

I frickin LOL'd at this statement for over 15 mins. Since when does one skill define whether a class does enough damage??
Since when does doing a buttload of damage define the usefulness of a class....IT DOESNT.

Some ppl cant just see beyond 2 things : Damage or Heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

Some of this community really needs think about half the crap that is written.

Blows my mind what some of you write. GL to you.

And please whatever you do....dont play a mesmer if you think it needs a buff.......You'll never do the class justice.

Well Mesmers need a PvE Buff in terms of AoE hexes/effects and skills recharge not in damage but its my opinion.

Daesu · Nov 19, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Well Mesmers need a PvE Buff in terms of AoE hexes/effects and skills recharge not in damage but its my opinion.

Mesmers just need their primary attribute, fast casting, to be fixed so they can be useful in PvE.

With slow skill recharge and energy limitations, fast casting is of extremely limited use in PvE. Mesmers can still work in HM, but mesmers are alot less powerful, in PvE, compared to necros and rits.

StormX · Nov 19, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15

My ranger is feeling awfully neglected these days. Sorry but marksmanship needs some help methinks... bows fire too slow and miss too often. Bad. When people start abandoning their professions' primary weapons to use the weapons of another profession then you know something is rlly wrong.

And everyone has already listed the other problems:

mysticism =crap. they should make it take effect when an enchant is cast on you and when it ends.

elemental dmg in HM =crap

the only shit that works in HM is armor ignoring dmg, that's why some skills are so overpowered while the majority are fail.

Tenebrae · Nov 19, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Mesmers just need their primary attribute, fast casting, to be fixed so they can be useful in PvE.

Call it "fixing Fast casting" or call it "fixing skills recharge and AoE Effects" , almost same thing .... it can be done same way even.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

With slow skill recharge and energy limitations, fast casting is of extremely limited use in PvE. Mesmers can still work in HM, but mesmers are alot less powerful, in PvE, compared to necros and rits.

Not a lot less than rits and thats for sure ( cough SP cough ). For the necro , EVERYTHING except SF sins are less powerful in pve than them , they are the most overpowered class in pve hands down. We all agree they dont need a buff.